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Docet Umbra • View topic - WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 26th, '10, 20:17 
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Unda wrote:
[...] People will get bored of the raids available as quickly as they currently do - Just running the same place once a week won't change that.


Well, one of the other promises is to have more raid dungeons per tier available than in WotLK. If that comes true, there's less boredom and less need to be able to run the same instance multiple times a week.

What I'm looking forward to the most with this change is balanced and challenging encounter design. It must have been a nightmare to try and balance encounters with the way things went in WotLK. Players potentially went into 10-man-raids with 25-man-gear from the previous tier. Or they didn't. Players potentially went into 25-man-raids already partly equipped with 10-man-loot from the same tier. Pretty tough to get a decent balance in without making encounters too hard or too easy. If everybody is on the same page in terms of gear, this becomes much easier. In that scenario everybody raids for the challenge. Either with 10 or with 25 people, depending on what guild you're in. For me at least that's much more enjoyable and reasonable than the "more people = more difficult = better rewards"-principle, that always seemed flawed for me to begin with.

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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 26th, '10, 20:29 
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perhaps what we should think about is the point in 25 man raids anymore, they will no longer offer better loot just more of it nor would it seem they offer that much of a different experiance. What with 10 man raids always seeming more fun and relaxed does this spell the end of hardcore raiding?????


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 26th, '10, 20:42 
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Glen wrote:
perhaps what we should think about is the point in 25 man raids anymore, they will no longer offer better loot just more of it nor would it seem they offer that much of a different experiance. What with 10 man raids always seeming more fun and relaxed does this spell the end of hardcore raiding?????


Depends on what you define as hardcore. What they announced is a significant change in design philosophy. Right now you primarily decide whether you raid 10 man or 25 man. 25 man being the "more difficult" and slightly more rewarding option. Come Cataclysm -- in case they go through with this -- you primarily decide whether you raid hardmodes or normal modes. Whether you do 10 man or 25 man is a decision simply based on the size of your guild (although 25 man supposedly yields more rewards per player). So the term "hardcore raiding" will simply stand for something else.

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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 26th, '10, 20:58 
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hmmm I maybe ment more as in is there going to be much reason to 25 man raid.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 26th, '10, 21:06 
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25 man will give more badges and gold on a per player basis. Loot will most likely be on almost the same lvl per player quantity wise but due to more dropping, you have a much larger chance of getting what you want. Difference will be minimal though and loot choice can be avoided by setting up raids so there is a good spread of armor users and caster/physical.

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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 27th, '10, 01:31 
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Launethil wrote:
Well, one of the other promises is to have more raid dungeons per tier available than in WotLK. If that comes true, there's less boredom and less need to be able to run the same instance multiple times a week.



Very good point - even if naxx was recycled content the first tier of raids (naxx, OS, voa, maly) kept people busy a bit longer than.....well pretty much any other single raid has since then. It would be nice if we had more of a choice in where to raid rather than just "the ONLY new raid this patch". If they manage this, I can go with it :) (but varied gear please not the tier 9 shoddy design philosophy!).


Also on the point I made about itemisation - take for example for casters a stat (lets say haste) is great for some classes/specs, and crit has a lot less worth. What happens if every item from X tier comes loaded with crit? Would you keep gear from the previous tier because the itemisation allows for more dps from it?

(From a melee PoV take this as getting ArPen instead of crit as a ret pally)

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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 27th, '10, 10:36 
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don't forget the itemization and stats changes :)

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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 27th, '10, 14:24 
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Will still lead down the same path - haste and crit will still exist, spellpower points will be pumped into stamina, mastery will be put on items, and spirit will be healer only. Oh and Hit will be inflated so the cap is harder to reach ofc :P

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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 27th, '10, 15:51 
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I love the changes and i agree with Glen's thoughts about 10 player raids being easier to organise and more fun to be in, since you will have less and more planable downtime and less logistics to worry about. DKP-Systems etc etc.

Most important: You won't have to run 3x 25 player raids and 2x 10 player raids per week, to be on par with the rest of the world out there, but there might actually be time to do stuff that is fun, for which you currently don't have the time, because you »have to« raid.

It all sounds like less stress and more fun for now.


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 Post subject: Re: WoW Raid Refinements with Cataclysm
PostPosted: Apr 27th, '10, 16:53 
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as long as this doesnt fuck up 25mans when finalized im ok with it running 25mans a week as main prio and also 2 10mans of the same instance is kinda boring so i hope they make a lot of raid instances for 25man so that when u choose for 25man that ur not done for the week once cleared.

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